AIUI ponders the question: What is Christianity...

The Real Logos · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:46 am

I will never forgive Saul/Paul for turning Jesus into a zombie.

:mrgreen:

Coolhermit · **Joined:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:33 am **Posts:** 183

Paul/Saul never actually knew Jesus at all - outside of a cosmic 'Inner Christ' gnostic idea. The Romans turned him into a God/man along the lines of their emperors. Early Jewish writings (say most of Matthew) have him as a peripatetic sage.

The final concoction is an untidy mixture of the three strands.

As I understand it · **Joined:** Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:42 pm **Posts:** 57

I'm in.... :mrgreen:

Mickey · **Joined:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:04 am **Posts:** 224

Hi AIUI, glad you could join us.

As I understand it · **Joined:** Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:42 pm **Posts:** 57

Now I'm in, I just need to organise my avatar.

Plus that's the second time I have had to re-log in just to post a reply.

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 522

Coolhermit wrote:

Paul/Saul never actually knew Jesus at all - outside of a cosmic 'Inner Christ' gnostic idea. The Romans turned him into a God/man along the lines of their emperors. Early Jewish writings (say most of Matthew) have him as a peripatetic sage.

The final concoction is an untidy mixture of the three strands.

I think that's to easy an answer Ch. Considering the parties at play in those days, I would say Jewish men had more to do with the apostleship of Paul to the Romans than the Romans inventing the story themselves. From all that I've read about those days of Roman culture and its many gods, I just can't be convinced that Romans would have concerned themselves at all with the Jewish story had not more than a few Jews had their hand in the game. And maybe the Roman senators and governors thought allowing a Jewish influence into their non Jewish tradition would help peace in the region?

Coolhermit · **Joined:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:33 am **Posts:** 183

Roselyn: " I would say Jewish men had more to do with the apostleship of Paul to the Romans than the Romans inventing the story themselves. "

You might be right. You might not. I see three separate strands of Jesus identificationizing. Not until the roman empire required a unified god/man was that aspect of Jesus invented. The Jews clearly rejected Saul/Paul - his own mouthpiece in Acts says so.

It would not surprise me if Saul /Paul was not a literary invention of Josephus (in fact nothing from those days would surprise me - considering his Damascus Road episode was lifted right out of Euripides' "The Bacchae") - Saul/Paul was close to Josephus, they had a common sidekick in Epaphroditus (Nero's secretary) and shared a similar personality and both were renegade Jews - if Saul/Paul could be classed as Jewish as he makes so many claims and counter claims it's hard to pin him down.

Rather than try to straighten the unstaightenable I deem it best to junk him alongside the myriad similar claimants of private special divine revelations.

As I understand it · **Joined:** Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:42 pm **Posts:** 57

Coolhermit wrote:

...Rather than try to straighten the unstaightenable I deem it best to junk him alongside the myriad similar claimants of private special divine revelations.

"I'm Brian and so is my wife!" - Life of Brian, claim to divinity...

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 522

Coolhermit wrote:

Roselyn: " I would say Jewish men had more to do with the apostleship of Paul to the Romans than the Romans inventing the story themselves. "

You might be right. You might not. I see three separate strands of Jesus identificationizing. Not until the roman empire required a unified god/man was that aspect of Jesus invented. The Jews clearly rejected Saul/Paul - his own mouthpiece in Acts says so.

It would not surprise me if Saul /Paul was not a literary invention of Josephus (in fact nothing from those days would surprise me - considering his Damascus Road episode was lifted right out of Euripides' "The Bacchae") - Saul/Paul was close to Josephus, they had a common sidekick in Epaphroditus (Nero's secretary) and shared a similar personality and both were renegade Jews - if Saul/Paul could be classed as Jewish as he makes so many claims and counter claims it's hard to pin him down.

Rather than try to straighten the unstaightenable I deem it best to junk him alongside the myriad similar claimants of private special divine revelations.

The inventiveness is there for sure and building hero's is part of every history. We can speculate as to why Romans would have desired a god-man Jesus. Maybe the citizenry pushed for Jesus while the senators knew the heresy was simply more of the same type fabrication, bundled to match existing gods. Maybe Romans grew tired of worshipping so many gods and decided one god would be more beneficial. Holidays (holy days) can become quite tiresome. Just look at all the holidays we observe today. I can imagine the Romans in constant procession to honor all their gods from one day to the next. And think about all the offerings to those gods. And the time it took to prepare and complete the process of honor worship. Which is probably why as the story relates it, the huge mega business of selling idols of Diana. Religion was the biggest industry in manufacturing "whatnots". So then along comes a Jew[Paul] and threatens the economy, wants to replace Gentile idols with a Jewish Christ. Maddening. :twisted:

NBK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:31 am

Cool said: " Jesus was a peripatetic sage". humm. You mean a hermit? :mrgreen:

NBK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:39 am

Roselyn says, why Romans would have desired a god-man Jesus. In fact every culture invents all forms of God into their own popular image. In fact we all do that every day, or at least reinvent.

It is the lack of ability to respect all others inventions that leads to the problems we have now. The insecurities of the Fundies ( of all stripes) that have caused the fighting we have seen throughout history.

Roselyn · **Joined:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am **Posts:** 522

NBK wrote:

Roselyn says, why Romans would have desired a god-man Jesus. In fact every culture invents all forms of God into their own popular image. In fact we all do that every day, or at least reinvent.

It is the lack of ability to respect all others inventions that leads to the problems we have now. The insecurities of the Fundies ( of all stripes) that have caused the fighting we have seen throughout history.

Agreed. And insecurity breeds hate and division, and hate and division breeds violence and war, and death the result of inbreeding. The Right Wing is thus killing itself as we speak. What then is Christianity? Might it be defined as a lesson learned the hard way? :roll:

NBK · **Posted:** Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:46 pm

Roselyn wrote:

NBK wrote:

.

Might it be defined as a lesson learned the hard way? :roll:

yes i think that way also. Yet I add ALL religions into that mix. Walk with Him/Her/It, let everyone walk their own way and leave them alone if you do not agree with their walk. (even thought I do not think of God as an "IT". )

See, you are just wanting the real God to stand up!

Coolhermit · **Joined:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:33 am **Posts:** 183

NBK :"Cool said: " Jesus was a peripatetic sage". humm. You mean a hermit? "

Nah not a hermit - peripatetic means he got around a bit.

The Life of Brian reference makes me ponder that I'd be the reclusive nutter in the dug out pit whose berries got eaten by the crowds.

AIUI ponders the question: What is Christianity...

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